Podcast
Culture
Death & life
Podcasts
Trauma
1 min read

Zoe Clark-Coates: re-enchanting life and loss

Sharing her own experience of baby loss, Zoe talks with Belle and Justin about grief, sorrow and faith.

Nick is the senior editor of Seen & Unseen.

A woman leans on a table, talking into a microphone.

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Zoe Clark-Coates MBE has become one of the UK's most trusted voices when it comes to the gigantic topics of grief and loss. She is an author, podcaster and TV broadcaster, as well as the founder and CEO of the Mariposa Trust and co-chair of the most extensive government baby loss review in recent years. Zoe shares her own experience of grief, having lost five babies, and tells of how her faith and her sorrow have always been well acquainted.

For more on Zoe visit her web site.

For advice and support regarding some of the topics that have been mentioned in this episode, visit the Saying Goodbye web site

For Government Issued Certificates of Baby Loss (UK) visit GOV.UK.

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Snippet
Character
Comment
Leading
Trauma
3 min read

Could I strike a deal after a public humiliation?

How to come back from setback after setback.

Jean is a consultant working with financial and Christian organisations. She also writes and broadcasts.

President Zelensky speaks and a caption reads ' on the economic partnership with the United States.
The art of the deal.
x.com/ZelenskyyUa

‘USA and Ukraine sign a minerals deal.’  

Two months ago, this headline looked impossible. The world watched in horror as President Zelensky was mistreated in the Oval Office and then appeared to be booted out of the White House before scheduled negotiations for the deal could begin. Zelensky left Washington having been publicly humiliated by the most powerful leader in the world.  

Whether he was blindsided, underprepared, badly briefed, misguided, disrespected, the victim of bullying or some combination of all of the above, the stakes for both him and Ukraine were as high as it could possibly get.  

These sort of political bust-ups if they happen, happen behind the scenes. But this was in the open, on air, for all the world to see. Not only then but it is available to view online in perpetuality.   

Now for just one minute, put yourself in President Zelensky’s shoes, what would be your next move? Me, I am probably going to cry, check my socials, go to sleep and say I am going home. I am done for the day. So many thoughts would be going through my mind. In all honesty, I would probably be going through all the stages of grief!  

Denial – ‘I can’t believe that just happened. Did they really just throw us out?’  

Anger – ‘What was J.D. Vance doing? Why did they gang up on me? I thought we were allies. I am not coming back here ever again.’ 

Bargaining – ‘Let’s get them on the phone. Does anyone have a contact we can reach out to? Can someone try to call the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio on private number?’ 

Depression – ‘What have I done? I have made things infinitely worse for my people and our country. Will we ever win this war? Will I be responsible for the surrender and end of Ukraine? Maybe I should resign and we hold elections?’ 

Acceptance – ‘It has happened now. No use crying over spilt milk.’ 

At this point I would say, ‘I am going to bed. Let’s start again in the morning’ (I think you can see why I am not a political leader).  

When I put myself in President Zelensky’s shoes and I think back to that day in February, (putting the war itself aside) and contrast it with his recent meeting with President Trump at Pope Francis’ funeral alongside the minerals deal, I am reminded of old wisdom found in an old book - the Bible.  

'Even if good people fall seven times, they will get back up.' 

Public humiliation, shame, disappointment and failure are often times when we give up and disqualify ourselves. Rather than view it as a moment in time, we tend to claim our failure, mistake or mishap as part of our identity. This often causes us to walk away from good opportunities and hold ourselves to an unattainable standard. My Christian faith teaches me to place my identity not in anything I do but in what Jesus Christ did for me when he died on the cross for my mistakes. Jesus like Zelensky, faced public humiliation and shame. He is the ultimate example of how I ought to respond in the face of opposition. Jesus did not respond to his accusers and remained focus on his mission to save not just a one nation but an entirely broken world.   Every so often I need to be reminded of this.  

Very few of us, if any of us, will ever face the level of public humiliation or as high stakes as President Zelensky did on that day (even if it feels otherwise). Things will go wrong, we will make mistakes, people will cause us embarrassment, but it will only be for a moment in time. This new minerals deal is a reminder that things can and will get better. Our mistakes or bad circumstances do not define us, we can and will recover if we are able to get up and try again. 

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