Interview
Creed
Freedom of Belief
Middle East
S&U interviews
10 min read

‘They constantly follow us…’

Iran’s spies infiltrated my friends and family. Dabrina reports the grim consequences.

Belle is the staff writer at Seen & Unseen and co-host of its Re-enchanting podcast.

A woman wearing a headscarf sits, looking pensive, amid a grid of concrete seats.
An Iranian women sits in a park.
Kambiz Alaei on Unsplash.

Dabrina is a Christian, she’s also Iranian, and the intersection of those two identities mean that she is in danger. After hearing her speech at an Open Doors event in Parliament, Belle Tindall caught up with her and learnt more about what it’s like to be a Christian in a country that regards it as a threat.  

So, to start things off - could you paint a picture of what it's like to be a Christian in Iran? 

Sure. Being a Christian today is not easy. Christians are the group, the minority, who are being most persecuted in the whole world - more than any other minority. In fact, we are experiencing the worst persecution of Christians in history, 365 million Christians are being persecuted, one in every seven. And in you’re right, we don't talk about it. Most people don't know about it. 

I'm from Iran, which is ninth on the World Watch List [a ranking of ranking of the 50 countries where Christians face the most extreme persecution]. I've grown up in an Islamic country, where just being a Christian - you're second-class citizen. You'll face discrimination. You have certain things that you are not allowed to do, just because you're of a different faith. 

What are some of those things? Are there certain professions that you'll know you can never get into? 

Yes, so for example, I was talking to an old colleague of mine who wants to start a bakery, but he's a Christian. And as a Christian, you're not allowed to touch food. You're not allowed to sell food that you've touched because you are an unclean person. So, you can't have a restaurant. You can't have a bakery. We were thinking, how can he start a cafe? How can he have a business? 

I can't be a lawyer. 

I can’t be a teacher.  

You can't have public jobs. 

You can't be a in a hospital, you can’t be a doctor.  

So, every public job that I applied to be back then (I was very young, very studious), they said no because I’m a Christian. It also means that I can't serve people because I’m an unclean person.  

So, I'm talking about me as a recognised Christian. I was born into a Christian family and my parents were pastors. I am Assyrian Protestant and they are recognized. For us it’s difficult, but if you convert, then everything becomes ten times harder. You’re in real danger if they figure out you are Christian. If you’re in the military and you’re found out, if they find out you're Christian at work, within your family even, you are in immediate danger. 

In your speech, you mentioned home raids - could you tell me a little bit about those? And explain to me the way that surveillance is a part of your life?  

Normally they have cars follow you, I’ve had cars following me and taking my picture. I had a boyfriend and the government would take my picture on the streets and then send it to my dad. You have no privacy. Also going to my friend's houses, those who were known Christians, I would be photographed there too. And then during the interrogations, they would put my pictures in front of me and say ‘look - you went to this house, you went to that place. Explain what were you doing?’ 

They constantly follow us. 

There were always cars in front of the church too. We actually got to know a few of them, we would sometimes take them out tea and snacks. I mean, they were there for hours, pretending they're reading a newspaper or something. They were always there, so of course, we got to know some of them. They had a camera installed in front of the church, a camera installed in front of our house, a camera installed at the end of our street. They were not hiding it. 

And so there was open surveillance. And there was also monitoring through spies. We constantly had spies in the church, in our homes, with our friends. We had to be very careful. Some of my best friends were spies. My brother's best friend was a spy and he eventually admitted it, he told my brother – ‘I'm sorry, I'm the spy. This is their plan: They're gonna raid your church… they’re gonna do this, they’re gonna do that’. 

My dad was in prison, he was arrested after they raided our home because one of our small group was a spy. My brother went to prison because his friend was the spy and he could tell the government where the church were about to meet.  

I understand you went to prison for a while. What was that for? In particular, what kind of charges did they put against you? 

There was nothing. There was no charge. What they were trying to do was to put so much pressure on me that I would sign papers, agreeing that we had conducted illegal gatherings. Admitting that we were training people against the Islamic regime. 

They were trying to get me a sign papers with the names of people in ministry, people who were ex-Muslims working in the church, saying that they've been baptized, things like that. 

I didn't do any of that, so they kept me in prison.  

Now, when I went to prison, when I was first arrested, it was 2009. Most charges against Christians came in two years later. Back then, you didn't have these official charges - You didn't have sentences like that. It was technically legal. It was made illegal in 2011. So, my church was the first Church they legally closed down. They shut it down, and then I think they didn't know what they were doing. They tried to figure out, OK, what's the next step? It took them a few years to figure it out. 

My father's charges were ‘acting against national security’ by organising small groups and illegal gatherings. My mum's charges, they were for ‘training spies and organising terrorism’. She was a teacher. And my brother was also charged with organising illegal gatherings. 

So we all have been in prison.  

Are any of your family in prison right now? 

No, my brother was the last one. He just came out. He came out during Corona because prisons were crowded, and he only had a few months left to do.  

Can you tell me a little bit, only as much as you're comfortable with, about your experience in prison? 
 
I was 23, so I was very young and naive, and it was terrifying. 

I wasn't sure what that what they were telling me was true, because they told me I would be in prison for five years, and we didn't have experience. My parents didn't know what was happening. Even lawyers didn't know – they didn’t know how to deal with it. 

Because the charges they were putting against you didn't exist yet? 

That’s right, And everything was very new. So even lawyers didn't know. 

I don't talk a lot about it. 

They would take videos of me and then they would threaten to destroy my reputation. They would do that often. Once I was released, I also had a car accident multiple times, and then the day after my car accidents, they would either call me or come visit me or come to the university and I say ‘oh, how's your car? Did you get it to the garage? We hope nothing bad happened’ and once they said, ‘hey, next time it's gonna be on the driver’s side, so just be careful.’ 

I saw people being tortured, I heard a lot of screams. Usually when they brought in new prisoners, they had blindfolds on until they would go to their rooms - the reason was just mental games, because you hear the torture. 

Where I was staying - it was one huge room with 15 men and I had one small side room for myself, so that was OK. I would hear a lot. They didn't torture me. They, they, hit me a few times but there was no torture. 

So just hours and hours of interrogations.  

How long were you in prison for? 

One year.  

You've mentioned that being a woman being particularly dangerous. Obviously, that is something that has brought Iran to people's attention recently - how dangerous it can be to be a woman there. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Does the fact that you're a woman and a Christian change your experience of being a Christian in Iran? Does it make it more dangerous, or a different kind of danger? 

It’s definitely a different kind of danger. I mean, we think that the sexual abuse is only happening to the women - and in fact, most men are being sexually abused. I think that the sexual intimidation for men is actually worse. And all men that I've heard from have fought through that experience. I think they do it just to break them down, break down all the pride that they have. 

It's horrible for everyone. 

But it's not that Christian women have it worse than men, it's just different. Interestingly, Iran has more women coming to Christian faith than men. Women are more vulnerable: A father can kill his daughter or a husband can kill his wife and claim she was a Christian and get away with it Or, you can divorce your wife if you find out that she’s a Christian, and not have to pay her. So, women are more vulnerable than men are. They can lose all of their support. Very fast, faster than men. 

I think one of the first questions that hearers of your story would ask is: what is it about your faith that makes you willing to be in such danger? 

Absolutely, I understand that. 

It’s like – why would you even believe in this religion if you know it can have such consequences, you could lose everything, why pay such a high price? 
My answer would be, when you encounter God, when you encounter Christ, when you are healed, when you witness signs and wonders, supernaturally, when you encounter the love of God as a father, as your saviour, as your provider.  

How? How can you walk away? When you live in a country that make you desperate, when you have no hope. There is no reason for life. There is no purpose of living. You're suffering. Maybe you're sick and you don't have insurance and can't pay - You turn to God. I read recently an interesting statement that says ‘I've never met an atheist on a lifeboat.’  

When you need to be rescued, you will shout out to God. 
When you're in that position you will cry out to God, and you know what? God is there to meet you, to encounter you and to love you, to help you, to provide for you, to support you. That's all. 

God is faithful and these people are all on the lifeboat and whether they believe in religion or not, they need God. 
 
When you say that God meets you, have you got stories of how? In what ways has God met you when you've needed him most desperately? 

Me personally? 

Yes. Or stories of others that you know of? 

We've had people come to the church and saying – my cancer's gone. I’m healed. I saw Jesus in prison. I saw Jesus in hospital. I saw Jesus on the streets. There's a saying among Muslims and ex Muslims when they meet each other, they ask each other - Have you seen the man in white? And so they’ll talk about the time when ‘the man in white’ came, or ‘the white man’ was there. Many, many Muslim converts have seen ‘the white man’. They’re encountering him like that all the time. 

That's incredible to hear. I'll make this my final question. I'm just really curious about what is your hope for the future of the church? What is your hope for your home, your country, your family, your church in Iran? 

I hope is that we will see freedom in my country, we will see churches free. 

But then, on the other hand, persecution has also brought church growth. 

Persecution has brought a lot of Muslims to Christ. So another hope, I would say, is that even in in the midst of persecution, in the mess of what is going on now, God will encounter more people. That Iran will turn into a Christian country. 

That millions and millions of people know him and worship him. 

Yeah, I think that's my biggest hope for now. 

 

Read Belle's further thoughts and reflections on her meeting with Dabrina.

Essay
Belief
Creed
Holidays/vacations
Mental Health
12 min read

Walking the Camino gave me blisters, good company, and these seven lessons

220 kilometres of questions

Jessica is a Formation Tutor at St Mellitus College, and completing a PhD in Pauline anthropology, 

A pilgrim with a red backpack heads off.
Shirley Roots, CC BY 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons.

It was Sunday night, and I was packing my bag. On Monday, I flew to Porto, Portugal, to begin walking a stretch of the Camino de Santiago. I had taken some extended leave from work to mark 10 years of working and wanted to take some time to reflect and hear from God. As I was packing, I was listening to a sermon online. The preacher suddenly said, “You don’t need to walk the Camino de Santiago to hear from God!” Ah. Good point. Nevertheless, it was all booked, so I set off to embark on this pilgrimage.  

The Camino de Santiago is a popular pilgrimage route, with a network of routes all leading to the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, the resting place of the apostle St James. On average, around 200,000 pilgrims complete The Way of St James each year, with 2024 closing in on half a million pilgrims. 

They say the Camino “calls” you, and for whatever reason, people respond by walking hundreds of kilometres. I set out on this pilgrimage with a backpack and some good walking shoes (or so I thought), hoping for some time out, beauty, and time and space to hear from God. What I didn’t anticipate was how the Camino would hold up a mirror to my inner life, revealing patterns and lessons I didn’t know I needed. 

The Camino was many things, but above all, it was a space. Space to be and reflect on the little lessons along the way. Here are the seven things that walking 220km of the Camino de Santiago taught me.  

It is ok for questions to be left unanswered 

There is a general thought on the Camino that most pilgrims come with a question. Something we are mulling over while walking, perhaps hoping for a resolution when the walk culminates in Santiago de Compostela. It is therefore not uncommon for one of the first things people ask you whilst walking to be “What question are you bringing to the Camino?” Which is a bold question from a stranger who doesn’t know my last name. Nevertheless, these kinds of questions are what bond you with others so quickly, as you share stories of what has led you to walk this path. There was a question I was carrying with me. One that was unanswered.  

In the evenings and quieter afternoons, I had space to read. I had a Kindle and was enjoying having multiple books at my disposal. I was re-reading Augustine’s Confessions. In Book 6, he writes about humanity's longing for our questions to be answered; he writes, “for it is better for them to find You (God) and the questions unanswered, than to find the answers without finding You.” I stopped still. There are many things in life for which we don’t have the answer, often related to pain, suffering, or injustice. A friend once reminded me of the story of Job in the Bible. A man who experiences deep pain and suffering. When Job confronts God and asks Him repeated questions about why he let this happen, God doesn’t answer any of his questions; instead, He questions Job. Job is left in awe of God and his character, proclaiming, “Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.”  

There are questions we carry in life, but the words of Augustine and the story of Job reminded me that if we find God, our unanswered questions are safe in the arms of those strong enough to carry them. It was a helpful reminder that not all the questions we have need an answer. There is a possibility of being content with the unknown. 

We are better, together  

I wasn’t going into this walk to make friends. For me, it was a spiritual pilgrimage to hear from God and reflect on my life. I thought I would spend my days in silent contemplative prayer, blissfully gazing upon God’s creation and skipping from town to town. This all changed at the end of day two. About 50 kilometres into my walk, I developed some terrible blisters. My shoes (which fit perfectly before) had started to rub and gave me the worst blisters I have ever had. The Portuguese coast was hot, and I’d gone the wrong way, so I spent around five kilometres walking alone. I arrived at my Albergue that evening broken and in pain.  

After dinner, I was tending to my broken feet when a girl I had zig-zagged with on the walk came to chat. We’ll call her, Evie. I admitted I was finding this all really hard, and Evie shared the same, only her day had been lifted by walking with another pilgrim. She had also begun the day hobbling in pain along the path, but when she got chatting to another pilgrim, she was no longer focusing on her pain, but on the conversation with another.  

 The next morning, I set off, hobbling along the path, and questioned how I would be able to complete the day’s 28 kilometres. When I was behind, I heard someone shout “Jess!”. It was a girl I had shared a bunk with on the first night at the hostel, Jamie. She arrived like an angel the Lord had sent to help me get through today. There was no way I was going to make it on my own. We spent the day walking, talking, and getting coffee, passing the time until all of a sudden, we found ourselves in the next town. I’d done it! We’d done it.  

This taught me that my pain can often draw me inwards, and when our pain is all we see, the journey ahead feels impossible. However, turning outward and sharing with those around us takes our attention away from our own experience and allows us to see the other. Christians say we are all part of the “body of Christ”, as the apostle St Paul described us - called to “bear one another’s burdens”.  As it turned out, walking and journeying with others would be one of the biggest gifts of this Camino. Sharing and travelling with one another’s joy and pain made the way ahead seem so much more hopeful.  

It is important to address things when they are small 

I learned this the hard way—through a blister. Around the 20-kilometre mark on the first day of the walk, I began to feel that tell-tale “hot spot” on my little toe. What I should have done then and there was stop, remove my shoe, and treat it with a blister plaster. But instead, I pushed on for another 15 kilometres, determined to reach the hostel without delay. By the time I arrived, my toe had swollen to three times its usual size, and the damage was done. The situation got so bad that I had to buy new shoes halfway through the Camino, and gained another 10 blisters across both feet for good measure.  

Looking back, it was a minor issue that quickly escalated into a much bigger one because I ignored it. It’s a lesson that extends beyond foot care. Tiny irritations, unhelpful habits, or unresolved tensions can quietly build momentum until they begin to shape us in a negative way. It is an age-old human trait. Another book that accompanied me on this pilgrimage was the Bible. A text I had walked with my whole life.  In the Bible, these unhelpful habits are frequently referred to as “sin”. The building up of things in our life that do not make us fully alive. Walking, I reflected on the little habits I form or the thoughts I allow to take hold begin to form and shape me in ways I might not be aware of until it is too late. As I tended to my broken feet each evening, it was a reminder that it is helpful to pause and address things when they are still small, to pray and bring them before God. It makes for a much more enjoyable journey. 

It is never too late to turn around 

I did this walk alone, with the gracious support of my husband, who sadly couldn’t get the time off work. My husband and I enjoy hiking together, and when we do, he has the role of “map reader.” Without him here, I was now responsible for navigating my route each day and picking the right course. There was one morning when I set off early with no other pilgrims around. On this day, I intended to hug the coast, always keeping the sea on my left, as this walk was much flatter and shorter than an alternative route that took you inland across varying terrain. 

As my day started, I realised I was heading away from the sea and up and out of town. This wasn’t the route I’d planned. I paused to look at my map and realised I was following the wrong one. What do I do? I was 15 minutes in the wrong direction. In that moment, I remembered something my husband had once said on another hike when we went the wrong way: “It is never too late to turn around.” I did just that. Swallowed the loss of 15 minutes the wrong way to get back on course.  

In life, there are times when we think we have gone too far down the wrong path, that we are beyond the point of no return. But in God’s story of grace, it is never too late to turn around. No detour is final. We are always invited to course-correct, to reorient ourselves toward truth, peace, and purpose. Sometimes, the holiest thing we can do is stop, look honestly at where we are, and have the humility to turn back. Even a misstep can become part of the pilgrimage if it eventually leads us back home.  

Rest is not failure. 

I made a rookie mistake in planning this walk: I didn’t plan a rest day. “How hard can walking for 10 days be?” I thought to myself. Turns out, very. My feet were painful. My blisters had blisters. I couldn’t stand without winching in pain. But I wanted to finish. So, I need to rest. One day, I decided to surrender my trainers and take the train. I felt like a failure.  

One of the repeated instructions in the Bible given to God’s people to live well is to “keep the sabbath holy”. To set one day of rest aside each week, as we see God do in creation, and how he commands his people. In our high-paced Western society, taking time off to stop and disconnect can feel counter-cultural. Walter Brueggemann discusses how the sabbath is an act of resistance to our consumer-driven culture. In the constant rat race of Western culture, the Sabbath provides an opportunity to rest and be still amidst the chaos, restoring us to our true humanity.   

Taking this day of rest on the Camino helped me to lean into the rhythms of grace and rest that, as a Christian, I am called to participate in. For me, it was learning that rest here was not failure, but a necessary part of the journey. The most helpful thing I could do was pause, not push on.  

We crave rhythm, ritual and simplicity 

On a multi-day hike, you quickly settle into a rhythm. Wake up. Coffee. Walk. Coffee. Walk. Lunch. Walk. Coca-Cola. Check-in. Shower. Aperol Spritz. Read. Dinner. Pack your bag for tomorrow. Sleep. Repeat. The cadence of the days, though physically demanding, was strangely comforting. There was something profoundly grounding about knowing what came next, and being free from the decision fatigue that so often clutters everyday life. 

I carried only the simple things I needed on my back. Halfway through, I even threw away some of my makeup to save weight, and I didn’t miss it. Life stripped back to the essentials felt freeing. The Camino quietly reoriented me toward simplicity, not as deprivation, but as a kind of clarity. 

In this pared-back way of living, rituals emerged, ordinary acts repeated with intention. I am also aware of what a privilege this was, comparing my life of plenty back home to the simplicity of being on a trail. Simplicity isn’t a choice if it is the only option. Tying my shoes each morning, sipping coffee at sunrise, washing my socks in a hostel sink, these small things became anchors. Rituals have a way of transforming what is ordinary into something sacred. These small daily practices gave my life stability that we all long for. We all have things that are sacred to us–and I think deep down–we all long for what is sacred.  

Throughout Scripture, we see how God brings order out of chaos. The decision fatigue I face each day is a reminder of a great blessing, but also a deep distraction. The Camino reminded me that simplicity and ritual don’t shrink life–they give it shape. 

There is a spiritual longing in all of us  

There was one thing that shocked me most about doing this pilgrimage. The Camino de Santiago is one of the world’s oldest religious pilgrimages, culminating in a mass at the Cathedral in Santiago de Compostela. But whilst walking the Camino, I did not meet a single Christian. No one had a faith. Everyone I met was walking with those questions, or the adventure and the journey along the way. But no one with a deep faith or hope in God. 

As I walked, I listened to Lamorna Ash’s latest book, Don’t Forget We’re Here Forever: A New Generation’s Search for Religion. In it, she explores a generation’s turn to Christianity as she follows the lives and stories of those within and without faith. The stories of people who the church had hurt, those who carried brokenness and were longing for peace. Listening to this audiobook was often interrupted by the beautiful encounters I had with other pilgrims along the way.  

These conversations reminded me that, while not everyone has a faith, I believe there is a longing for something bigger than us, in all of us. Whether spoken or not, there was a hunger for transcendence, a desire to be part of a story with direction, with purpose. The rhythm and ritual of completing this pilgrimage was a sacred act, something that held deep meaning for everyone walking. The sense of adventure, journey or even telos (Greek for purpose or goal) that we were all walking towards in the end at the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, gave our days direction and purpose.  

As I walked the Camino, it was the highlight I didn’t expect. I came into this thinking I would want to be alone. Listening to scripture and praying all day, every day. However, in the end, the best parts were the stories and conversations I had with the people I met along the way.   

So, there it is: the seven things walking the Camino de Santiago taught me. It was, without a doubt, the most physically and emotionally demanding thing I have ever done. And yet, it taught me so much.  

We all carry questions. We all long for meaning. We all crave rhythm, connection, and the sacred in the midst of the ordinary. Although I returned with my mind still pondering questions left unanswered or new things that had come to the surface, I was reminded that life is found in the small steps we take and the people we take them with—echoes of the One who made us for relationship, for purpose, and pilgrimage. 

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