Article
Ambition
Creed
Humility
18 min read

The crisis of humility

There’s a crisis of humility in politics, discourse and careers. Without it, ambition, recovering the middle ground, or leading, are all doomed to fail, essays Barnabas Aspray.

Barnabas Aspray is Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at St Mary’s Seminary and University.

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Misconceptions about humility 

Humility is one of the most misunderstood virtues today. For many people it seems to imply either dishonesty – saying you’re bad at something when you know you’re good at it – or else a paradox, because how could someone who is humble know it? Wouldn’t that mean they’re not humble anymore? 

Humility is an especially unpopular virtue for anyone who aspires to success. Surely humble people never make it to the top, because they’re always letting other people get ahead of them? Surely the people who make it to positions of power and influence are the ones who push themselves forward, loudly proclaiming their talents and abilities? Surely if you want to be a leader, you’d best not have the virtue of humility! A founder of a business once told me that their mentor gave them the advice that, if they want to have a successful business or career: ‘don’t be humble’. Being humble will ruin your chances of success. You have to reach for the stars if you want to succeed. You have to be the one who shouts loudest, who promotes your product or your skills as better than anyone else’s.  

The best example of false humility is the kind of dishonest self-abasement that English culture often expects of you. 

In short, we tend to think of humility as opposite to ambition, or at least a fatal handicap for anyone who is ambitious. But I suggest that the opposite is actually true: humility is absolutely essential for ambitious people. If you’re proud, then you will not struggle to improve yourself because you don’t think you need to. It’s only the humble person who is constantly seeking to improve because they’re aware of their shortcomings and how they can do better. So it’s rather the other way around: without humility, your ambition is doomed to failure.  

In fact, all the above reservations are not really about humility. They might be about what we commonly call ‘false humility’. The best example of false humility is the kind of dishonest self-abasement that English culture often expects of you. My mother told me that when she was in school, she learnt that whenever someone complemented something you’d written or done, you’d have to reply ‘oh no, it’s not good, not at all.’ Or if they said ‘you’re really good at X’ you had to reply ‘no, I’m not’. That was part of the culture. And we British, because we love to think of ourselves as humble, also love to look down on Americans for being brash and shamelessly self-promoting.  Those Americans are so arrogant – they think they’re great at everything. We don’t seem to be aware that our attitude towards Americans reveals the truth about our own self-opinion. We are very proud of being humble and we think that makes us superior to everyone else.   

If we find ourselves looking down on others for not being humble, then surely something has gone wrong somewhere with our conception of humility. How do we recapture the essence of this virtue to stop seeing it as a hindrance, a paradox, or a handicap to success and instead see it as a practical and helpful tool to enable success?  

A Judeo-Christian invention 

The very idea that humility is a desirable character quality is an invention of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Humility does not appear in Aristotle’s list of virtues. On the contrary, Aristotle believed that one should seek to be raised above others, as superiority and honour were among the most enjoyable pleasures life had to offer. Humility was out of place and inappropriate for anyone of worth. As John Dickson writes, humility was for the lowest of the low, an attribute of the debased and crushed, “associated with failure and shame.” 

All this changed in Western culture when it encountered Judaism and Christianity. To begin with, pride was identified as a flaw that sets you in opposition to God. Throughout the Old Testament, the arrogance of haughty rulers is condemned. For example, one of the great Old Testament prophets, Isaiah, wrote poetically: 

The Lord Almighty has a day in store 

    for all the proud and lofty, 

for all that is exalted 

    and they will be humbled. 

Then in the New Testament, humility is praised as a virtue in stark contrast to the surrounding culture of the time. More than one New Testament letter encourages people to acquire humility, because ‘God opposes the proud, but shows favour to the humble’ – a loose quotation from the Old Testament book of Proverbs. Jesus himself tells his followers, ‘those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted’. 

But what does this look like in daily life? I suggest the following points:  

  1. Being honest about your strengths and abilities without feeling superior because of them.  

  1. Being grateful for everything you have in life as opposed to thinking you deserve it. 

  1. Being slow to criticise and quick to praise others.  

  1. Being curious about things that are outside your normal concerns.   

  1. Taking an interest in other people.  

  1. Acknowledging our finitude and limitations.  

We will unpack each of these in turn below.  

Your worth is not measured by your abilities 

Let’s begin with an example from the 19th century Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. One of the most significant and groundbreaking philosophers of the 19th century, Kierkegaard never became famous in his lifetime. His writings only became famous long after his death, and while he was alive only one of his published books sold more than 500 copies. This is the crazy thing: Kierkegaard predicted that he would become incredibly famous after his death. In one of his journals he wrote this about Fear and Trembling, his most well known book:

‘Once I am dead – then Fear and Trembling alone will be enough to give me the name of an immortal author: then it will be read and translated into foreign languages.’ 

This sort of thing in his journals has led many people to think that Kierkegaard was incredibly arrogant and conceited. But I suggest that this judgment arises from the above-described misconceptions about humility. In fact, Kierkegaard happened to be right, and he knew the value of this book he had written even when none of his contemporaries did. Knowing that you are a genius who will become world famous and go down in history is not arrogance if you happen to be right about it! Kierkegaard had an accurate self-assessment. But what prevents this from being arrogance is simply this: he did not think that his unique talents made him superior to other people. He did not look his nose down on those who were not geniuses like him. He did not measure his own worth as a human being by his abilities. His concept of success did not have to do with intellectual, financial or worldly success at all. Success, for him, meant progress down the path of Christ-like virtue. Kierkegaard believed that no matter how great your competencies, they are only a useful tool – your faith is what makes you who you are and is the true focus of your identity. 

Humility is not about underestimating your talents, but about accurate assessment of them that does not use them as a reason to feel superior. 

Entitlement stifles gratitude 

Humility is also about your attitude towards whatever privileges and comforts you have in your life. It involves being grateful for everything in your life that’s going well and focusing on all the things that you can be grateful for rather than all the things that are lacking in your life. Let me illustrate this with a quote by G.K. Chesterton (adapted for brevity): 

All genuine appreciation rests on a certain mystery of humility. The person who said, ‘Blessed is the one who expects nothing, for they shall not be disappointed’, put it quite inadequately and even falsely. The truth is ‘Blessed is the one who expects nothing, for he shall be gloriously surprised’. The person who expects nothing sees redder roses, and greener grass, and a more startling sun. Until we see the background of darkness we cannot admire the light. As soon as we have seen that darkness, all light is lightening, sudden, blinding, and divine. 

This sort of attitude is the opposite of what we call today a ‘sense of entitlement’. In the Western middle class world we have a strong sense of entitlement. We feel that we have the right to a well-paid and fulfilling job, a comfortable house, the best medical and healthcare, a secure pension, holidays abroad, a romantic partner and children if we want them. Our list of things we feel entitled to has grown very long indeed, and we feel shortchanged or mistreated if we don’t have any of these things. We could learn a thing or two from someone from a very poor nation in Africa who would be grateful beyond words simply to have a house and a job of any kind, and three meals a day. I’m not saying we shouldn’t strive for things like universal healthcare – that is obviously a good thing that everyone should have if anyone does. I’m just saying that we start from the wrong end if we come to expect such things as a default, rather than celebrate them as a wonderful gift and huge achievement. 

Elsewhere in Chesterton’s writings we find this very short poem which encapsulates his own attempt to live this sort of gratitude and appreciation that starts by expecting nothing and then is delighted to be given anything at all.  

Here ends another day 
During which I have had eyes, ears, hands 
And the great world round me; 
And with tomorrow begins another. 
Why am I allowed two? 

This sort of not taking things for granted, which leads to a joyful gratitude for everything we have, is a practice that greatly helps us in cultivating humility. Gratitude helps us to see our privilege for what it is: not something we’re entitled to, but something we’re extremely lucky to have at all and something that other people don’t have even if they equally well deserve it. 

Being slow to criticise and quick to praise 

There’s a third aspect of humility that has to do with how we judge the achievements of other people: whether we are quick to point out their flaws, mistakes, and imperfections, or whether we look first for what we can appreciate and admire. We all know the kind of film or music critic who can be counted on to find something wrong with any movie or track you mention. Similarly, some food critics are hard to satisfy with any meal and can always find a way it could have been better. Perhaps the clearest example is with the way many conversations about politics run, as if those in the conversation know exactly what the government should have done, and if only those in power would listen to them, all our national problems would be resolved. 

C.S. Lewis, whose life was devoted to literary criticism, wrote this about the nature of criticism (adapted for brevity): 

I had not noticed how the humblest, and at the same time most balanced and capacious, praised most, while the cranks, misfits and malcontents praised least. The good critics found something to praise in many imperfect works; the bad ones continually narrowed the list of books we might be allowed to read. Someone experienced in good cookery, if they were humble, could praise a very modest meal: the dyspeptic and the snob found fault with all. Praise almost seems to be inner health made audible.

Curiosity beyond habitual concerns 

But humility is not just about how we assess or judge things and people that are put in front of us. It’s also about what things we take an interest in in the first place. Curiosity is one of the virtues that supports humility. This does not refer to the nosiness that is always seeking gossip about things that aren’t your business. Genuine curiosity means taking an interest in whatever is put in your path, whether or not it feels relevant to your own concerns and ‘interests’ in the more technical sense. This is something that gets increasingly difficult the more fixed our careers and lives become in a particular professional direction. We lose interest in things that aren’t related to that professional field. The 20th century French thinker Gabriel Marcel put it this way: 

As my life becomes more and more an established thing, a certain division tends to be made between what concerns me and what does not concern me …. Each one of us thus becomes the centre of a sort of mental space, arranged in concentric zones of decreasing interest and decreasing adherence, and to this decreasing adherence there corresponds an increasing non-disposability. 

The kind of curiosity that supports humility means letting things interrupt these ‘concentric circles’ of interest: taking the time to learn about something that’s completely out of the way of your normal concerns. That’s really the only way to prevent the sort of professional deformation that comes with every profession: the blinkered way of looking at the world which only notices what is relevant to that profession and is unaware of how unimportant most of those things seem in the larger perspective of everyone else’s lives and the whole of society. And it’s only by remembering that larger perspective that we can prevent ourselves from accruing self-importance when we become particularly successful in our chosen careers. A professor of philosophy, or English, or history, or any subject really, can become a really big deal and a celebrity in the academic community of their own subject, and can become enormously self-important, simply because they’ve forgotten how small their own discipline is in the wider scheme of the academic world, and indeed how small the academic world is in the wider scheme of society. Thank goodness nobody at Oxford has this deluded sense of self-importance! Let’s remember Gabriel Marcel’s advice, and fight against the concentric circles of importance that make us disregard or show no interest in things that aren’t part of our chosen area of expertise.  

It's really all about other people 

But humility is not primarily about being interested in other things, grateful for other things, and ready to praise even flawed and imperfect things. It’s much more about being interested in and grateful for other people. It’s the interest in other people that’s the key here. The reason we misunderstand humility because we think of it primarily in terms of our opinion of ourselves and our abilities, and if other people feature at all, it is because we’re comparing ourselves to them somehow. But the whole point of humility is that it’s not about you at all. If you’re still focusing on yourself when thinking about humility then you haven’t grasped what humility is all about. True and real humility draws your attention away from yourself and towards other people. C.S. Lewis makes this point well (again, adapted for brevity): 

Do not imagine that if you meet a really humble person they will be what most people call ‘humble’ nowadays. Probably all you will think about them is that they seemed a cheerful, intelligent person who took a real interest in what you said to  them. If you do dislike them it will be because you feel a little envious of anyone who seems to enjoy life so easily. They will not be thinking about humility: they will not be thinking about themselves at all. 

Humility does not need any paradoxical denial of your own talents, abilities or achievements. But what it does lead to is a reassessment of how important they are in comparison to other people’s talents, abilities, and achievements. Humility, in fact, makes the whole idea of comparing yourself to other people feel less of a worthwhile pursuit.  

In the final analysis, humility is not really about you at all; it draws your attention towards other people, to take an interest in them and learn from them. The humble person is the person who takes the most interest in those around them, whoever they may be. There are so many reasons to do this and so many reasons this makes you a better leader. If you don’t think you can learn anything from the people you lead, then you won’t learn anything from them. If you imagine that leadership means having all the answers, and if you can never bring yourself to admit when you don’t know the answer or need advice or another perspective, then you are only increasing your chances of getting things wrong, badly wrong over time. If you think you’re ‘above’ the people below you, then you will miss out on all the valuable insights they have to offer.  

The gift that humility gives is the ability to keep learning from everyone, no matter how different from you they seem, no matter how much less experienced, or ‘unimportant’ in society’s eyes. Even those you disagree with and think are badly wrong are potential sources of enormous learning and insight if you simply open your eyes to see what they can offer you. I’ve learnt more from taking seriously and listening carefully to people I disagree with than I ever learn from reading books, just because those kinds of people – the people on the other side of some controversial religious or political view – they challenge me and force me to see things in a new way, interrupting my normal patterns and channels of thought. Humility helps destroy echo chambers, throwing you out of the little cosy cocoon you’ve created for yourself, keeping you mindful of how many plausible ways there are of thinking about the world. And that is the only way your thinking can grow and change and develop.  

Awareness of finitude 

We are living in a time of increased polarisation in religion and politics. This takes the form of a pressure to take a particular viewpoint to its extreme, driven out of hatred of the opposing view and fear of looking even the tiniest bit like. There is no longer a ‘middle ground’ – a position that sees value in both sides and seeks to combine their strengths. If you try to take that position, people on both sides will denounce you as a traitor who is ‘really’ on the other side, or at least criticise you as heading down a slippery slope to the other side. The metaphor of a ‘slippery slope’ has a lot of currency in this discourse; it is by means of it people can warn against the dangers of seeing any truth at all in the opposite side’s position. Those on the left and those on the right, capitalists and socialists, republicans and democrats, brexiteers and remainers – each feels that the other side is pure evil, cannot be negotiated with any more than the devil, cannot be incorporated into a wiser, more balanced system: the only sensible approach is to shun it altogether, deny it any room or any voice or any validity. Concede nothing; never admit that the other side has a good point about anything; never admit weakness in your own side’s position; never act as if you still have something to learn. You have to act as if your own position is perfectly figured out, has no flaws, and moreover that the opposite side is completely ignorant, duped, and maliciously distorting the facts to fit their own ‘agenda’ (whereas your own side seems never to have an ‘agenda’).  

This polarisation in Western politics has arisen from a crisis of humility, and it manifests as a judgmentalism and a refusal to listen that are rooted in an unconscious arrogance. We judge other people as either stupid, misguided, or evil and conniving, and in judging them that way we implicitly say that we are free of those same vices. We seem to think that we have attained an objective and provable position that is obviously the right one to any sincere person who’s willing to consider the facts neutrally. Even if we don’t ever say this or put it in that way, the manner in which we judge others reveals a lot about how we think of ourselves. Especially in academia, we are trained to write as if we understood things better than our interlocutors, and could pass judgment on them. We’re taught not to admit that we haven’t read X, or haven’t heard of X, or don’t know X: we’re taught to hide all of that and act as if we know more than everyone else and can judge everyone else right or wrong depending on how far they agree with us.  

In philosophy, this attitude is described as a forgetfulness of the finitude of the human condition. Philosophy has a long and sustained discourse on human finitude, the finite limits of knowledge and thought. We can easily judge people from past ages because they had racist or sexist views, and we condescend to them by saying that ‘they were a product of their time’. But we don’t seem to apply the same logic to ourselves and realise that we are also a product of our time. The ethical views we consider important, the measures by which we judge other people lacking – those measures themselves are products of our own age, and we can be sure that future ages will judge us for things just like we judge past ages, for crimes we were not aware we were committing. We all have the opinions we have, not half so much because we have independently thought about it and arrived at the correct view, as simply because we were born and raised in this century, in whatever place in the world we were born and raised, and we went to this or that school and were taught these particular ideas, and accepted those ideas as true, just like everyone else in the world who believes things radically different to us.  

Acknowledging and accepting our finitude means recognising the contingency and provisionality of our own viewpoints, however strongly we hold them and however important we think they are. Recognising the provisionality of our political or religious views means realising that we are deluded if we think we’re certain we’re right. Certainty is not available to finite human beings. Awareness of finitude means realising you can never be certain you’re right. You might challenge me by asking, ‘are you certain of that?’ No, I’m not – that would be self-contradictory. But I believe it is true all the same. I don’t believe the pursuit of certainty is a wise use of time, and I believe claims to certainty are deluded. But of course, I might be wrong: that’s part of the point of humility. We all need to recognise that we might be wrong. We have no better reasons for holding our political and religious opinions than other people have for holding theirs.  

Only when we recognise this we can open our minds to listening to other people and learning from them. And it’s only when we listen to other people and take their views seriously on their own terms that we have a chance of learning where we might be wrong, or of finding confirmation that we might be right. It’s a highly important form of leadership that is called leading by example. If we want someone else to take our views seriously and listen carefully to find out if we’re right, why don’t we take the lead and start by doing them the favour? Then perhaps they’ll follow our lead and listen to us in turn, and then perhaps we’ll have some real dialogue instead of polemical denunciations, judgments, and counter-denunciations.  

So I think humility has real practical value and is urgently needed in our own time to heal some of the wounds that currently divide our world. 

Interview
America
Creed
Politics
S&U interviews
16 min read

Is reconciliation possible in America’s culture wars?

Understanding a strange kingdom of anxiety and belligerence.

Miroslav Volf is Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and is the Founder and Director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture.

A protest placard is held above a march, reading 'If you don't change it, you choose it'.

Miroslav Volf grew up in Croatia and is now Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale University, and the Director of the Yale Center for Faith and Culture. He is the author of many books and is one of the USA’s most prominent public intellectuals. Graham Tomlin recently met up with him to discuss life, politics and faith in the USA during this pivotal election year. 

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Graham: So great to see you today, Miroslav. 

Miroslav: It's always wonderful to see you too. 

I want to talk to you about life in the USA in this election year and some of the issues surrounding that. What do you feel is the mood in the USA at the moment as the election approaches? 

It's tough to describe it, but I would say that predominantly it's a mix of belligerence along with apprehensiveness and uncertainty. I think the American left isn't the happiest with its candidate. They wonder whether Joe Biden can win against Trump, and whether he is too old to be president. On the other side, I see a certain kind of triumphalism and an increasing radicalism, and that is, for many people, worrisome. I also note a willingness to fight. And then there are some, among them some of my colleagues at Yale, who are determined to leave the country if things don't turn out quite the way that they hope! I tell them that I'm used to living under authoritarian regimes - that's how I grew up - and it's possible! Perhaps also responsible.  

Back in 1996 you published your book Exclusion and Embrace, which largely came out of your experience of the war between Croatia and Serbia, and before that, living, as you say, under a totalitarian regime in eastern Europe. I was struck by a question you asked there: “what kind of selves do we need to be to live in harmony with others?” I wonder how you reflect on writing that book now in the context of contemporary America, which seems much more polarised than it was back in 1996? Is there some of that work that resonates particularly with the US situation right now? 

I think so.  Some eight years ago - I'm not sure exactly where to draw the line - I sensed that the political fronts were hardening. They have since become almost completely mutually closed. Any movement toward the middle, towards reconciling, is experienced as a defection and weakening of one’s side.  

I have felt it before, in the former Yugoslavia. When I wrote the book advocating “embrace,” it fell on deaf ears - for Croats, Serbs, and Muslims. The book was written and published as the war was going and had barely ended and my compatriots felt that I was taking away their enemy; they were invested in having one. The time for reconcilers comes when fronts have gotten a little bit more porous than in situations like the one I've just described, which is to say that the time for reconcilers is ‘ordinary time’, rather than making interventions in the actual situation of conflict.  

As to the kinds of selves we need to be, whether in conflict or before or after it, I think it's being people who resist themselves becoming closed by the boundaries of the combatants in the fight, people who are able to see beyond the seen to the unseen, as it were, who hope for the unhoped for and who have the moral ground on which they stand, whose “will to embrace” has not been undermined by violence. 

In that book you also wrote about repentance and forgiveness as being crucial elements in reconciliation. Do you see much evidence of repentance and forgiveness within the USA right now? If not, what would it take to bring about that kind of culture within American life?  

I don't see much willingness. I see the culture becoming increasingly unforgiving. There are, of course, ritualistic gestures of forgiveness in different domains of life, but they're really public image management tools rather than steps toward reconciliation.  

Some of the resistance to forgiveness is a function of the conflict, as I noted earlier. In cultures of late modernity, I see another reason for resistance.  For the most part, we operate with the narrative account of the self: ‘I am what I have done, what has been done to me, what I have made out of what I've done and what others have done to me.’ But if you have this notion of the self, how do you do what the miracle of forgiveness requires? How do you unglue the past deed from the self that has committed that deed, when that deed is—by definition— defining of the person?  Forgiveness requires a vision of the self that isn’t defined by its acts.  For Christians, God’s unconditional love defines the self. That emphasises the importance of the Christian message and deep theological reflection on it to make such an account of the self plausible. 

And to take that idea further, much of our identity politics language tries to isolate one particular aspect of a person's self, and so that's the only thing I need to know about. So, I might say to you: I know what you're like. You're Croatian and therefore I can either say you're one of my tribe or you're not one of my tribe and I can either shun you or accept you that way. But of course, we are, as people, much more complex than that. We're much more multifaceted. We have different identities that are not just about nationality, but they're about relationship, embeddedness within society, political or family allegiances and all kinds of different facets of our selves. That trend to isolate one aspect of the self as definitive is surely quite unhelpful in enabling us to engage with each other as persons, as opposed to just a projection of our imagination? 

 It's a kind of betrayal of the particularity of the self and an inability to perceive the person as the particular individual that they are. I think that's also the case in ethnic or political conflicts. I remember during the war in the former Yugoslavia, saying to my fellow Croatians: “To be a Croatian is, almost by definition, to have Serbs as your neighbours.”  But, obviously, in the situation of conflict, the last thing you want to hear is that you have been defined by your relationship to the person whom you now want to obliterate! 

Exactly. And you can see that same dynamic playing out in the Israel-Gaza situation right now. In many ways, Israel is defined by its relationship with the Palestinians, and Palestinians are defined by their relationship with Israelis, and you can't get away from that.  

These days we often hear about culture wars. Progressives and conservatives offer different visions of the future. In the United States that seems a very polarised, toxic debate. Do you think that Christian faith offers a different path from either? Does it beckon us on a third path that is different from the conservative and the progressive polarity? 

Yes, it does, especially with hardened polarities of this sort. You know the old adage – “I don't care what's left and what's right; I care for what's right and what's wrong.” This right / wrong contrast, this dualistic moralism of religious traditions, can obviously be lived in different ways. But if we understand it in the properly Christian way, with humility, the contrast between right and wrong seems to me important because it provides us an independent place on which to stand and from which to open up a space for movement in this rather sterile conflict, or at least not to let ourselves be drawn into it.  

To nurture such Christian independence, we need to return to the big question that Dietrich Bonhoeffer asked toward the end of his imprisonment: “Who is Jesus Christ for us today?” That seems to me to be a central question, and it helps avoid the temptation of the church—as you see happening in the United States on both sides, left and right—to a certain kind of identification with the politics of a cause. 

I don't know if you've seen this book The Kingdom, the Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, by Tim Alberta, which is very interesting. He’s a staff writer for The Atlantic, and this is his second book, looking primarily at the evangelicalism’s betrayal of the gospel, “thinning out,” so to speak, into a nationalist civil religion. 

The idea of the “stranger King,” suggests that we are in a kind of revolutionary situation. 

People in the UK often wonder how the Evangelical Church in the USA seems so solidly behind Donald Trump, who shows no particular sign of Christian, or evangelical faith. Clearly he will endorse certain conservative positions which evangelicals are in favour of, but is there something deeper going on than that? How do you read the Evangelical support for Donald Trump? 

I think it’s not only true of evangelicalism in this country, but in other settings, and it is also true of other Christian (and even more broadly, religious) traditions—that the nation ends up being a much more powerful god than the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. So, when there's a sense of threat, everybody coalesces around defence of that political in-group.  

My colleague here at Yale, the sociologist Phil Gorski, has written this interesting article “The Return of the King”. He talks about the shift from disenchantment and secularisation to a new immanentism in the U.S. today. He also invokes the vision, from ancient pagan cultures, of a ‘stranger King,’ who is not so much a sacred king, as in Christian understanding, one responsible to God, but a divine figure, who comes from nowhere, from outside, and who is seen as a rescuer, with divine powers that are above moral scrutiny. 

I think that speaks of the way in which people understand Trump. It doesn't matter how he behaves; he can do as he wishes. He could, as he put it early on, even before he became president, kill somebody in the middle of New York and that wouldn’t impact how people view him. We know about his sexual escapades and the lawsuits, and they don’t impact how he is seen by his supporters.  

The idea of the “stranger King,” suggests that we are in a kind of revolutionary situation. Steve Bannon is a very good example. He says he is a kind of Leninist who wants to take control of the state apparatus and dismantle everything. So, there's been a certain radicalism that is obsessed with power. I think that's where Trump has come in. And he has found religious interpreters who have helped him emerge as a new King Cyrus, or somebody who need not be held to moral standards because he is what is perceived to be needed right now. 

The idea of a re-paganisation is very interesting. Here in the UK, many people observed that Boris Johnson was the one Prime Minister in recent times (unlike Blair, Brown, May, Sunak) who did not really profess any very obvious religious faith. His great heroes are in fact, the classical pagan writers of Rome and Greece. There was no great idea for political harmony or vision there. It was more about holding power for its own sake in some Nietzschean sense. 

At least a few years back, some of the neo-pagan philosophers, like Alain de Benoist, who wrote, among other things, a book titled On Being a Pagan (which built partly on Heidegger and mainly on a certain interpretation of Nietzsche), were popular in hard-right circles. De Benoist sees himself very much as retrieving paganism, in sharp contrast to monotheism.   

One of the themes you mentioned a moment ago was that of the nation. One thing that strikes us on this side of the pond looking at America is a very strong brand of Christian nationalism. American churches often have a flag at the front, and presumably this idea of a Christian nation goes back to the Puritan vision that founded America. How do you read that theologically? Do you see the nation as a positive thing or a negative thing? Is it something we should be suspicious of? Is it something that should be embraced?  

I'm disappointed to see the nation turning into what seems like the supreme good.  I find it useful to differentiate between “patriotism” and “nationalism,” though this is somewhat arbitrary linguistically. If one went with that distinction, “nationalism” would be particularistic and exclusivist, and a nationalist would have a “national” God; “patriotism” would describe commitment to one’s own nation in the community of all nations, and a “patriot” would worship the God of all nations.  I think that Christians have universal commitments in the sense that there are no moral insiders and moral outsiders.  This kind of universalism is rooted in the simple conviction that each one of us is created in the image of God, who created all of us, and in the belief that Christ died for each one of us and was raised for our justification. I cannot place relative values on people based on their proximity to me. What I can have, is a greater responsibility for those with whom I live, those “whose lives are closely linked with ours,” as we pray in Episcopal and Anglican liturgy.  

What I find problematic is not just the “America first” kind of particularism (which sometimes goes along with isolationism).  Problematic also is the “America, the best” kind of universalism (which often goes along with expansionism).  One is withdrawing, the other is aggressive, but in both we are interested, above all, in ourselves and our own well-being. I think we need a world order in which we can affirm the equal dignity of every single human being — so that the life of my compatriot is not worth more than the life of those on the other side of my nation’s borders.  Equal dignity would also require that we care in a special way for those whose lives and conditions of life have been curtailed by the way we have exercised political power historically.   

The other aspect of this is surely that the Church is itself a multinational community. In the Christian Church, as they say, water is thicker than blood - in other words the water of baptism that binds us is stronger than differences of ethnicity and nationality. The church is a community that reaches across every nation of the world. These bonds are stronger than any other, and that relativizes the nation as an entity that defines us. It doesn't mean we can’t have a certain patriotic pride in our nation, or our place of origin. The particularity of that is a good thing - we're all rooted in places and histories, which are a part of who we are, but being Christian and therefore bound to each other relativizes the idea of the nation as what ultimately defines us as a people. 

 Agreed. 

You wonder what it would be like if across the culture wars we could recognise each other's Christian faith as being a stronger bond than the ideological differences that divide us? 

Or in situations of conflict - if we could recognise the value of a person of my ethnic group and someone of another ethnic group as exactly the same. That would have profound implications, even when we engage in what we might deem to be a just war.  How war is conducted would be greatly changed if we thought of one side and the other in that way, that each individual is of absolutely equal value. 

World altering and disorienting processes are under way, which I think partly underpin those political tensions, and we need to cast our eyes to that which lies underneath political tensions and to what can take us out of them. 

One of the other themes I wanted to explore was one of the casualties of our modern political life - Truth. We talk about living in a post-truth age. A huge volume of opinion, ideas and data comes at us every day because of the information revolution of the internet, social media and so on. The question is: why does truth matter in politics? I recall something you wrote in Exclusion and Embrace: “if argument cannot win, weapons must.” Once truth goes always leads to violence. So, could you just expand on that a little bit and explore that theme in the context of our political life?  

The stance that people often embrace in conflict is this: “If truth is against me, why should I be for the truth?”  And so, truth becomes a casualty of my own interest. We can observe that from a little kid, telling an “innocent” lie, all the way to the workings of the propaganda machinery in world politics. In a way, a lie is an homage to the truth, because a lie presents itself as truth.  A good deal of the tensions in the USA are rooted in an inability to trust that what the other person says is correct, so that there is this mood of suspicion that nibbles away any trust that may be built. It may be important to remember what Jesus said about truth — that it will set us free.  The truth sets each one of us free precisely by binding us to one another in trust. 

That begins to open up one last area I wanted to explore with you. You run a course in Yale University called Life Worth Living, which you offer for students who want to explore some of the deeper questions as to what makes a life worth living. I'd love you to just explain a bit about how that course works, but particularly bearing in mind the theme we're talking about today. What is a life worth living in this particular moment in the context of the USA? You talked at the beginning about how you’ve lived under totalitarian regimes, and that it's possible to live a good life even in really difficult circumstances. What does that life look like at the moment?  

I think of that course as a kind of exercise in truth-seeking conversations, in speaking about what matters most to us in life with those who disagree with us. The course is offered to Yale College students, undergrads, primarily. We may have seven or so seminar groups each semester, all populated by students from different cultures, embracing different faiths or none, and we discuss in sequence various competing visions of the good life on offer.  When I teach the class, I tell the students that, of the traditions we are exploring —  Buddhism, Christianity, Islam or Nietzsche’s philosophy — all make truth claims.  Which is to say that they are talking about the truthfulness of each of our lives. Our goal in class is to wrestle with these truth claims not just intellectually but also, and even primarily, existentially.   

This is a very important exercise in how one can, in a pluralistic setting, affirm the truth and stay by it, while at the same time entertaining seriously the opinions of others, even adjusting one's own perspectives in the light of the perspectives of others.  We need these kinds of skills given our profound disagreements on political, economic, and life-orientation issues.   

 So a life worth living would be a life where you can have those kind of conversations? 

Certainly.  These kinds of conversations and the kinds of deep but humble commitments to truth and to honoring others irrespective of whether we agree with them or not are a key element of a life that is worthy of our humanity.  At the political level, they are a condition of the possibility of envisioning and moving toward a common future.  

Do you see any signs of hope of this kind of discourse within the USA? You started off by saying how there's a sense of anxiety and belligerence. Are there signs that give you just a little glimmer of hope that there may be a different future going forward? 

Well, when I speak about the class to people, I don't see them yawning, nor do I detect wistfulness in their eyes, as if this were somehow unrelated to real life.  I see people listening and wanting to move in that direction, entertaining it as a possibility. When I talk in churches about the question “Who is Jesus Christ for us today?”, I don't find resistance. I find people saying — yeah, that's what we need to take seriously, because we are living in a kind of dystopian period.  

Our problems today are not just hardened political fronts and the emergence of civilizational nations with authoritarian leaders.  World altering and disorienting processes are under way, which I think partly underpin those political tensions, and we need to cast our eyes to that which lies underneath political tensions and to what can take us out of them.  Generative AI!  Imploding environment!  Tremendous disparities in wealth! These are things that will profoundly shape our future, and we need to know how to talk about them notwithstanding the deep disagreements we have.  We also need to nurture a Christian imagination, a hope for the world that the New Testament sketches — largely symbolically — at the end of the book of Revelation.  People today resonate with these kinds of themes, and that gives me hope.  

It has been good to end on this longer term note. One thing that Christian faith does - is it thinks long term. It doesn't think in electoral cycles, it thinks more in centuries than years or even decades, so getting that bigger perspective is really helpful. 

Thank you Miroslav for your time and your insights into our times.  

Thank you for the conversation. It's always great to talk to you. 

Miroslav Volf

A man with a beard and glasses, leans back and to one side while takking and holds open hand in front of himself
Miroslav Volf.